#176: Your AI Website Sucks. PeachWeb is the Future

Josh: Welcome to season 15 of the Pitch, where startup founders raise millions and listeners can invest. I'm Josh Muccio. 

Lisa: And I'm Lisa Muccio. And on the show today we have Lucas with PeachWeb. He's raising $500,000 

Josh: Web schmeb. We've got too many website builders out there. There's Wix, there's Squarespace, there's Shopify. Then you have all these new AI tools that let you spin up a website in like 10 seconds. AKA Base 44, Replit, and Lovable. 

Lisa: There are a lot of web builders, so why bring a web builder on the show? 

Josh: Well, in a world where everyone can just spin up a mediocre, kind of looks like everyone else website. People will be looking for ways to make their website stand out. Enter 3D websites.

Lisa: Ah

Josh: Ahhhh!

Lisa: When we met this founder, Lucas from PeachWeb. We got really excited because he was building a web builder so that everyone can make 3D websites. And they're beautiful. Amazing. You scroll and you end up entering this whole new world instead of just scrolling down a webpage. 

Josh: Yeah.

Lisa: Super cool. 

Josh: And he's been building for like a decade, building 3D websites. 

Lisa: This is his passion. 

Josh: But the question is, are 3D really cool looking websites, is that enough to actually stand out and build a venture backed business? 

Lisa: The pitch for PeachWeb is coming up after this.

Josh: And if you wanna join us live for our next season of the show and see live pitches happen in real life, we're gonna be in Tampa this April. Learn more about our upcoming show at Pitch.Show/Tampa

BREAK

Welcome back to the pitch for PeachWeb. Let’s meet the investors.

Charles Hudson with Precursor Ventures
Sometimes a business is what it is, not what you want it to be.

Elizabeth Yin with Hustle Fund

Can I ask you a very direct question?

Jesse Middleton with Flybridge

I am so sick of people that are building stuff for building stuff's sake.

And Dawn Dobras with Capital F

Do not grow one more inch until you improve this brand

Cain: Let’s get those cameras rolling

Josh: We have Peach Web. [clap] 

Lucas: Hey everyone. 

Elizabeth: Hi. 

Charles: Hello. 

Jesse: Hello. 

Lucas: How are you doing? 

Elizabeth: Good. 

Jesse: Lucas, Jesse, nice to meet you. 

Lucas: Nice to meet you. 

Elizabeth: Hi Lucas. Elizabeth. Nice to meet you. 

Charles: Charles, nice to meet you. 

Lucas: Nice to see you. Lucas. 

Lucas: Here we go. Hey everyone. I'm Lucas from PeachWeb and I come from a family of fashion designers. And in the 80s, my Dutch granddad, he opened his first shoe store in Amsterdam. It was a small store, but there was something really particular about it. When you, walked in, there was a baby lion and you could play with it. You could imagine everyone's reaction when they go into a shoe store and see a lion for the first time. And he became talk of the town in Amsterdam, and he sold a lot of shoes. And this was really inspiring from a design and marketing perspective. I applied this to web design. I saw every website as a storefront, as a chance to really stand out to captivate people and immerse people into what you're doing.

So I started my first web design agency when I was, uh, 19. But I was stuck with HTML. It's like designing inside a box, you're creating the same old, flat, boring website. It's like everyone having the same ordinary store. And the worst part is people would leave after seven seconds. And I really hated that. In 2021, something happened. It was the biggest update on the web since HTML. It's called WebGL, and it got supported on all browsers. And finally, you could render stunning interactive 3D graphics, bringing websites to life. I knew this was the future of websites. This was my, you know, baby lion moment. And I started one of the first WebGL website agencies in 2021. Working with the biggest brands, creating websites that people loved and immersing people for minutes in these websites. Not seconds anymore. But the one problem we faced, was the build time. It took months to create a webGL website. We had to code every single graphic, and it costs up to six figures to make. So in 2023, me and my partner said, what if you could make a WebGL website in a minute and get the website of your dreams, get a website that you love, and more importantly, a website that you'd love to share. That's why we're called the Lovable for Websites 3.0. I would love to show you. 

Charles: Cool. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

Dawn: Great. 

Lucas: So you log on. And you select the type of website you want to create. You tell us a bit about the company, but this is where it gets interesting. This is WebGL. You can select your visual identity from abstract 

Charles: Oh cool. 

Lucas: To tech, to Web3 elegant, which is glass, which is the Apple vibe at the moment, natural with immersive backdrops. And these are just stunning interactive websites. And our AI can create variations. So you can find your visual identity, you can find your online presence, you can find that store front that you want.

Elizabeth: To what extent can you customize that? Like if a company already has some logos or design elements. Can that be incorporated in this or not quite? 

Lucas: That's after the website gets generated. You can go onto the builder. 

Elizabeth: I see. 

Lucas: And then here you're selecting, so the UI style, and it generates a website in a minute, but these websites normally go for around $30,000. Now you can get it for $29 a month, and it's three times more engaging and it's just the next generation of websites. 

Jesse: I mean, it looks beautiful. 

Dawn: Yeah. 

Jesse: The designs look amazing. 

Lucas: Thank you. 

Jesse: I'm curious sort of what is the seeding of the design elements. How do you keep it fresh? You know, your comment about this is Apple's current take 

Lucas: Yeah. 

Jesse: As the new things come up, are you doing that yourself or is the AI sort of tracking trends and sort of generating that. 

Lucas: So because we pioneered sort of WebGL and we've done so many websites, we ultimately create the templates in the library. And then what AI is doing, is essentially customizing it. So you can create lots of variations.

Jesse: Yeah

Lucas: Infinite variations, but it follows certain parameters and certain design principles, which is important for these types of websites. 

Jesse: Got it. 

Charles: Are most, are these people who would otherwise have gone to WebFlow? Or a WebFlow agency to get something like this built?

Lucas: It's a similar profile. Yeah. 

Charles: Yeah. 

Lucas: It's a very similar profile. 

Dawn: First of all, congratulations. Having run websites for 30 years. Huge expense, right? 

Lucas: Mm-hmm. 

Dawn: So I really appreciate what you're doing. Talk to me about like, where your customer is, is it marketing only? How do you work with Shopify? Like, I'm curious about what type of website it is and what your customer is. 

Lucas: Yeah, sure. So we did a beta launch in October. It was a WebGL website builder, standard, no code. And worked with web designers, uh, agencies, tech did really well. E-commerce did well. creative websites, agencies. anybody that wants like a really cool website and really cares about design will be naturally attracted to this. 

Elizabeth: This is super cool and I love your story. I feel like I have too many conflicts. Everybody from WebFlow to even, we have Gamma, which started out in slides and is now doing websites, and Rork, that's the vibe coding for mobile, like, just with all these different players, I think we are conflicted out or over indexed, one of the two.

Lucas: That's okay. Thank you. 

Charles: What are the limitations of the product today, like what can't you do with this today that you'd like to enable? 

Lucas: I think we have the opposite problem. the idea is that you can create a lot. 

Charles: Mm-hmm.

Lucas: WebGL sort of opens, gives you a whole new canvas to play with. Our challenge was build time. They used to take three to six months to build. and now we want to reduce that to a minute. 

Jesse: I, I'm curious, coming back to this question on Shopify, comparison to Webflow, for the founders that've known who have used Webflow, it's a level deeper than just a website.

Lucas: Yeah. 

Jesse: It gets into sort of some level of application development, if you will. Like, depends on how you define application, but it's like, web app. 

Lucas: Yeah. 

Jesse: I'm curious how deep do you feel like you need to go down that rabbit hole over the coming year? Or do you, do you need to get to a place where you can build a full Shopify store embedded in it? Or is this really the marketing site and you flip over to the store and you're gonna shop and that's not your domain? 

Lucas: Yeah, we're gonna focus more on marketing. 

Jesse: Yeah. 

Lucas: Uh, websites, landing pages, everyday websites. 

Jesse: Yeah. 

Lucas: What's next is WebGL is sort of XR ready, so we are ready to take that leap when it gets there. But yeah, we are kind of focusing on our bread and butter for now. 

Jesse: Yep. 

Charles: Hm. I'm curious, like it’s clear that you can get to something useful quickly. Do you have a sense of like, how much time people, or do you have, do you have customers who are using it now before you release it or. And I'm just curious how much time they're spending to actually get to the finished product. 

Lucas: Yeah. So we have 10,000 users. 

Charles: Mm-hmm. 

Lucas: We have 2000 websites built. 

Charles: Mm-hmm.

Lucas: And 300 custom domains. 

Charles: Yeah. 

Lucas: It takes around two weeks to learn, and make a good website, which is too long. 

Jesse: Mhmm

Dawn: I'm curious, about use of funds and what you're thinking about. like a product roadmap and how you're using those funds.

Lucas: Sure. So we're raising a 500 K round, more of a bridge round for this launch. We want to triple our metrics in the first three months and we're gonna spend 280,000 on paid ads and 220,000 on the library for it. We're self-sustainable at the moment, and this is purely gonna go into that launch. The reason I call it Lovable for websites 3.0 is not the UX it’s the fact that these are the most loved websites and what's really powerful about Lovable, they have this thing with apps where people share the app that they make. They're like, look at this new concept I made. I made this happen in a minute. Look how incredible all of this is, and that is why Lovable is Lovable today, because they have viral apps. What we've proven with our websites that these are viral websites. 80% of our customers are from organic marketing. We've won Best No Code website for the last four or five months beating, uh, Webflow and, and Wix. We've had 25 design features and twice website of the day. So our websites have that viral effect. And I think that is our competitive advantage, is that people love these websites. 

Jesse: You, you mentioned raising 500 K as a bridge. How much have you raised previously? 

Lucas: I raised 1.2 million previously from four VCs at, 7.5 million valuation 

Jesse: So that was raised though for this product, like separate from the agency that you- 

Lucas: Yeah, so in 2023 we transitioned from agency to builder.

Jesse: Yeah

Lucas: We probably bootstrapped the first sort of six months to nine months. 

Jesse: Yeah

Lucas: Then we were able to raise our first checks. We probably got drip fed for a year, we were able to do a good launch. And then since then we've, been self-sustainable and I've been waiting for this release to get back into the market. 

Jesse: You're, you're clearly passionate about design. Tell us a little bit about the team, co-founders or 

Lucas: So I'm the co-founder from London and the founder is from Slovenia. We met 10 years ago and we had the same team, same 10 people, designers, and developers. We self-taught ourselves WebGL in 2021. Together we're one of the most experienced teams when it comes to WebGL. We're the pioneers. We've worked with the biggest brands. I generally believe we're the only team to sort of elevate this category. 

Dawn: These are really cool tools. I'm just gonna circle back to like your product roadmap. Like 

Lucas: mm-hmm. 

Dawn: Tools are changing so fast. Where do you see this in five years? 

The answer, when we come back

Dawn: These are really cool tools. I'm just gonna circle back to like your product roadmap. Like 

Lucas: mm-hmm. 

Dawn: Tools are changing so fast. Where do you see this in five years? 

Lucas: I want this to be, like, the Unreal Engine for web. and I want it to be a fully AI driven experience. So you create it in a minute, and then when you go onto the builder, you're gonna have a design agency that's gonna suggest different variations. So would you like this model to rotate, to hover. And I want to make that creative process super easy for people. That's the only challenge with this, is how do we make it easy for people to make? And that is our main purpose of the roadmap. Our competitors are kind of stuck with HTML and we are the first ones to build a WebGL engine, and the possibilities are absolutely endless and I think with people's attention spans getting worse every day. I think this is the only way forward for the web to keep people's attention and to stay relevant. 

Dawn: How do you think about personalization in terms of a customer journey? I mean that's the beauty of AI is that you can get a more personalized journey. 

Lucas: Yeah. I think for e-commerce. Like LVMH and Chanel. they all create WebGL websites as landing pages. And these websites are used more for campaigns. So like, for like visual storytelling. and that's how, where we started. So I think for e-commerce. I see it as, it's still gonna be creative agencies driving that. And we're sort of giving the tool set to allow to them to create what they want. 

Elizabeth: It is interesting. I have seen a lot of landing pages with WebGL, like Robin Hood's gold credit card page where it's dripping with gold. Like I, I think it is interesting in capturing attention as opposed to the sort of traditional static fill out a form here kind of page.

Lucas: Yeah. 

Jesse: You, you mentioned the larger brands, the Guccis

Lucas: Mm-hmm. 

Jesse LVMH, those things. 

Jesse: Do you go up market with it? I mean, do you find your users to be not $29 a month. Like, is there a way to move up to that, to be a larger budget? This is the work you were doing as an agency. And -

Lucas: Yeah. 

Jesse: You were getting paid a lot more money, I presume to 

Lucas: Yeah. 

Jesse: To do their website than $29. Um, and so I'm just curious about, in your roadmap, you, that may not be the plan for you. 

Lucas: Yeah.

Jesse: I'm just curious, is that a direction you go or is this about disseminating this, going down market and making it just accessible to everybody and letting them work with their expensive agents?

Lucas: Yeah, we did explore going down that direction. Similar to to WebFlow, it will be a low code solution where the creative developers can go into the builder and create whatever they want. To reach the bigger tickets, we're gonna have to really iron out sort of that low code solution.

Jesse: Yeah. 

Lucas: But it is a difficult market to get. 

Jesse: To- totally. 

Lucas: It's like, yeah, it's, I want to focus on people. 

Jesse: I'm not sure you should go into that market to be clear. The uh, I uh, I just heard a story last night. A friend was telling that these, these companies, they like recently laid off one of their most senior people, and the reason was they made it too accessible. The brand. Like they, they're in the business of making things difficult. Like that is the whole point. So you may never want to go into that uh market as a product. I'm curious about what, you probably studied the market of website builders over the last you know, call it Web 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. What is it that allows one of these to really win and stand out? why is it that Wix is what Wix is, and there were tons of others that made customize your website builders that are not Wix. What is it that, that allows you to win? Because there will be others.

Lucas: Yeah, I think the benchmark is easy to make. That's what Wix was. 

Jesse: Yep

Lucas: That's what Framer is. Framer is one of, probably one of my favorite ones in the HTML to come out recently. They've done super easy to make, and it looks nice. I really like WebFlow as well, by the way, I think, I think they were the first ones to really push out the design boat. But for us, we need to make these that you love to share them.

Jesse: Yeah. 

Lucas: When you go on all the design media, you see Peach Web, you don't see, nobody, no one shares Wix. So, and this is all the attention, eyeballs, social media, content. We are the best at it. For example, there's another company called Spline and they do 3D modeling, 

Elizabeth: Also a portfolio company. 

Dawn: Wow. 

Lucas: It's a shame. Another life. Um, but they

Elizabeth: But actually could I just interject on this point for a moment. One thing that these all have in common, Spline, WebFlow, and many of the others that we’ve either backed or seen is, um. The founders have to be willing to, I call it eat glass for a few years because there is so much to build, so I think in the case of Lovable, they're, they're really fast builders. 

Lucas: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: And that's an advantage. But I think in the case of Spline and Webflow, it took them a while. Like, I don't know if you've ever seen Vlad's story publicly, but it was basically like, we built version one and no one wanted it, and we were not making much money and no VC wanted to back it. So we went back to our jobs and built it on the side, and then we went back to it. It was like a crazy five to seven year journey of, at pre-seed or seed, uh, before they really took off. 

Lucas: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: So it was this idea of you just, you love this so much, you keep on pounding. Even if no one's throwing money at you, whether it's your customers or investors, you just keep doing it.

Lucas: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: Like that's what it takes to win in this kind of general space. 

Jesse: Lucas seems to love this

Elizabeth: Yeah yeah yeah. So I mean, I think this is great.

Lucas: I’ll eat this pretty, pretty glass. So I appreciate you saying that and it's, you know, that has been

Elizabeth: So keep going. 

Lucas: Yeah. That has been part of the journey and we're self-sustainable. We use the website builder to make websites for other people because for the first time, you can get a website like this for an affordable price. We do charge like $15,000, $20,000 for a landing page. so our sort of design arm is funding the development and it allows them to keep building. And I will, I will do so until, you know, I could, I could launch this AI by myself. And I will 

Elizabeth: I think you'll be a big company if that, if you just keep going. 

Lucas: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: Because this is a huge space. And you have an incredible product.

Lucas: Thank you.

Dawn: What keeps you up at night? 

Lucas: Keeps me up at night. I think, that's a good question. I think losing this company, I think I love…

Dawn: What do you mean by that? 

Lucas: I love what I do, and I, you know, to make sure that my developers stay, that we, that we can keep building, keep creating, and I can stay on this journey. Even if it's not a straightforward journey. I'm, accept that, but I don't want to lose this. I think this is the most beautiful, like, creative thing for websites, the bar is so low that when people get this, they're like, wow. Like really? And that's like an amazing sort of feeling. and I don't want to lose that. I know that sounds a bit cringe, but like, I don't want to lose this company. 

Charles: I think this one isn't quite right for me, so I'm not gonna move forward. I think you're great. and this is more a statement of like, the challenge I have with the category, which is that this is the most beautiful one that I've seen and we've done some things in XR, AR, WebGL. That is not easy to do, what you've built. I just really struggle with the competitive landscape in the, in this category. I think to Elizabeth's point, I think if you keep at it, there's a good chance you're the winner, but I, I have not had much success in picking which of the teams starting from that day zero who have beautiful products are gonna win. So I don't think I trust my instincts in categories like this, but I wish you all the success and I have no doubt that you're gonna keep at it til you're successful.

Lucas: Appreciate that. 

Jesse: It's funny you say that, Charles, 'cause I, when I asked the question about what makes them win I made a note here. Like, I feel like many cases, I know it when I see it. But in this like category, like I'm invested in a couple other website builder products, design tools. But like, I think it just takes time to win. 

Charles: Mm-hmm. 

Jesse: and it's hard for me to know at this stage if this is it. I don't know the market well enough. I think because of those reasons, I'm, I'm out, but I, I'm bummed that I'm out because I think it's beautiful. I just don't know how to get to Yes on this one. I know it's a not a great answer for you, but

Lucas: That's okay. I've heard it before.

Jesse: But you're gonna do it anyway so 

Dawn: Lucas, you're building a Ferrari. It's awesome. Having worked in branding for a long time, I can think of lots of customers and I think you're gonna make a lot of money. I anchor more on the digital commerce side, less on the marketing side. So I'm out on this one, but I have no doubt that there's gonna be hundreds of thousands of beautiful websites with your fingerprints all over them. 

Lucas: Appreciate that. 

Dawn: You've got a great aesthetic. 

Lucas: Thank you

Jesse: I'm gonna be scouring the design blogs for all the websites that you’ve launched, so.

Charles: Alright. Great.

Jesse: We appreciate it. 

Charles: Thank you so much. 

Elizabeth: Thank you. 

Charles: Thank you.

[clap] [door slam]

What the investors really thought, after this

Josh: [clap + door slam] I thought you guys were gonna go for that one. I thought you were loving it. 

Jesse: I, I'm so on the fence. So we invested in a company called Carrd, small pre-seed. It's a micro website builder.

Charles: Mm-hmm. 

Jesse: It's used by tens of millions of people and they're very shareable, that, this is a web like 2.0 thing, not his design and like. 

Josh: Right. 

Jesse: And it's done well. It makes millions a year, but it's not massive. And I think that's the challenge in this category. There's so many website builders. I have a friend in New York who has another really beautiful e-commerce website builder and like it works great for 10,000 customers, but 

Josh: Yeah 

Jesse: It's just not massive. I'm not sure I have a nose for like, what makes WebFlow versus all the other website builders that came out the same era, whatever. 

Elizabeth: Luck

Jesse: It's, maybe it's just the grit, luck, timing, all that. 

Elizabeth: But can we call out sort of an elephant in the room also? the ones who are making it, they ship so fast. 

Jesse: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: Like Lovable, got to a million revenue run rate in like, weeks. These people haven't launched in two years. You know, there's a pretty big delta on that.

Dawn: Yeah, there were two things that I was looking for a different answer to that would've tipped me into due diligence. One. I am very anchored on commerce and I don't think that you can have a web builder that only addresses the marketing side 

Josh: So even though like WebFlow doesn't really specialize in commerce…

Dawn: So, and, and that could be just my bias, but right now I think that tools are coming out really fast. And so I was looking for something that was a little bit larger

Josh: Don't you think, in this category, like specializing is key? Like I wonder, if Lovable, they've clearly built an awesome brand, but it's known for just spinning up like really quick, to use a crude term, AI slop that's beautiful. I think they're trying to fix the back end he's taking the opposite approach. He's built the builder first, now he's figuring out the AI so that when they go through that journey, they can take it from slop to an actual refined website.

Jesse: See, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure. I'm not sure I agree that that's what Lovable or Replit have done so far. 'cause you can build like, full applications. 

Charles: Yeah. 

Jesse: But I would say like even in this, Elizabeth made this point, which I totally, I'm on the same line with you. I think you need to be able to do a lot in order to specialize well because that person that wants the marketing site also wants a form builder. Also needs a checkout button. Also needs to embed it. 

Dawn: The world of just marketing sites is a smaller slice

Charles: It’s limiting.

Dawn: Than the entire world of websites. So no doubt they'll do lots and lots of intro, sequences, landing pages, but I'm just looking for more tools. 

Jesse: Yeah 

Charles: Also sometimes it's just like there's something you believe the company should work on and the founder's not interested.

Dawn: Yeah

Jesse: Yeah

Charles: I've had like no success investing in companies where I’m like

Jesse: Zero success.

Charles: I really wish you would do this. And the person's like, I'm very clearly doing this. sometimes you just have to respect that somebody has a different vision for the company they want to build than the company you would build if you were in their position.

Dawn: The other piece I'll just put out there is the pace of tools is going so quickly right now. And so the other question was, where is this in five years? And, the answer is none of us know. 

Josh: Yeah. 

Dawn: But I was looking for a little bit more a subject matter expert, and he is, I'm just saying that question left me a little hanging. 

Josh: Elizabeth, would you have invested, were you not conflicted out? 

Elizabeth: No, it's too slow. Webflow was built in a different time where there was not as much competition, but if you are starting something like that today, you have to be so fast. We're in another company that's in a mobile builder, and although not quite as fast as Lovable, like, they got to a million revenue run rate in less than two months. I think that's what it takes in this day and age. And even if you're design focused, or whatever you're focused on, whatever the niche is, you gotta be shipping, shipping, shipping. Really, really fast. I mean, all of them are fast, like Lovable is fast, Cursor's fast. Like they're all, that's who you're competing with. And even if there isn't a competitor today, there'll be one tomorrow who is gonna be faster and will, you know, run circles around you. 

Jesse: The, this is one of the things I was, like WebGL is a standard and so the comment around like nobody else is doing this is a tough one to lean on. People are moving quickly. So if, if this style right, that, when CSS became prolific on the internet, everybody adopted CSS. It became a standard. That's what you did. You, So if this truly is the way forward, like every website builder is going to pay attention to this. And every app builder when it tips the scale, it’s gonna be like, oh, this is the output we need to have. It's not a proprietary thing. So the speed matters because right now it seems like he has the edge, no one's doing it.

Josh: Mm-hmm. 

Jesse: But he's gotta have the edge and then maintain that edge. 

Elizabeth: If this starts to take off, I have no doubt there'll be tons of competitors like nipping on their heels. 

Josh: Well lastly on the, on the speed bit, does he not get any credit for the fact that like it was a website builder and then he's going to launch the AI builder in October? Like that's the point in which, he, like this thing could speed up. 

Elizabeth: No credit. It's a dog eat dog world out there Josh. 

Jesse: He, he's not competing with AI products, just competing. 

Elizabeth: He's competing with anybody who is offering a website alternative.

Jesse: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: So whether you get it done with an AI product or whether you get it done with, like whatever it is, like that's what he's competing with and it's just so competitive. 

Josh: All right. That's a pitch, so we'll reset the room.

Jesse: Five minutes? Ten minutes?

Lisa: It's a dog eat dog world Josh. 

Josh: I know. It's so brutal out there. Gosh. What are we gonna find to invest in with all the dogs? 

Lisa: I love when Elizabeth just like lays it out for you like that. 

Josh: What? Well, I don't like it. 

Lisa: Okay. Okay. But let's talk about this for a sec, because she doesn't like how slow they're building, 

Josh: right.

Lisa: They started building their builder in 2023. At the time of the pitch, we're in 2025. That is a long time. 

Josh: Yeah. 

Lisa: However, I would say that they are seed strapping this business essentially. 

Josh: Yeah they're running the agency on the side. 

Lisa: That is something that seems very attractive to me about this business. It's not gonna flop because he ran out of funding.

Josh: Yeah. 

Lisa: And can't raise anymore. He has the ability to keep building as long as he needs to. 

Josh: Well, to go back to an earlier point from Elizabeth, founders gotta eat glass for a while. 

Lisa: Yeah. 

Josh: They've been eating the glass. 

Lisa: Hey. That's a good point. 

Josh: The bigger issue I think is like what Jesse and some of the others said, which is like, I don't know how to evaluate what makes a special business in this category.

Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Josh: I don't know that you see that reaction very often from VCs where they're like I've seen a lot of pitches like this, and I still don't know how to decipher good from bad. You can't also can't rule out website builders like, I don't think

Lisa: I don't know. Maybe we're in the world where you have to rule out web builders. What if that

Josh: is, are web builders, is that a red ocean now? you just gotta write that whole category off. 

Lisa: I don't think it's actually a red ocean. It's just a very full ocean.

Josh: I guess in the end, having a cool website is not a differentiator enough for the VCs

Lisa: But it was for one VC because the very next day after this pitch, Lucas got his lead investor. 

Josh: Yeah this corporate VC called Shoplaaza. They're a Shopify competitor, and I guess he got another couple VCs in the round too.

Lisa: Yeah. He's got 470K out of the 500 that he was trying to raise. 

Josh: Yeah. Go Lucas!

Lisa: And the AI web builder officially launches this month. You can check it out at peachweb.io 

Josh: So your website can look like a lion… 

Lisa: In a shoe store.

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Next week on The Pitch…

Elizabeth: Where are you in the process of customers and pilots and

Meghan: Yeah. to date we've worked with five customers, all of them are unpaid today. 

Elizabeth: Have you suggested paid contracts to anybody? 

Meghan: Absolutely. Every time 

Jesse: As a sales person. 

Mike: Yeah, I was gonna say, salesperson to salesperson. 

Meghan: Yeah. 

Mike: Like, I’m not sure you’re using your own product theory on yourself

That’s next week! Subscribe to The Pitch on your favorite podcast player so you don’t miss future episodes. You can watch full length versions of every pitch over on our Patreon at The Pitch Uncut.

And if you’re a founder raising a pre-seed or seed round you can apply to pitch on season 16! We’ll be taping in Tampa, Florida this April. Send us your deck at pitch.show/apply

We’ll see you next Wednesday, in the PITCH ROOM.

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This episode was made by me, Josh Muccio, Lisa Muccio, Anna Ladd, and Enoch Kim. With deal sourcing by Peter Liu, John Alvarez, and Phoebe Sun.

Music in this episode is by The Firmware Rebels, Breakmaster Cylinder, The Muse Maker, Marlon Gibbons, Theory Hazit, Joya, and Peter Jean & The Runaway Queen.

The Pitch is made in partnership with the Vox Media Podcast Network.